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Myth, Legend, Non-Existent.
dan632 Posted: Tue Dec 10 06:58:08 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  someone said 'everything we know about up there we have learnt from down here, how can anyone take that seriousely?' or sumthing along those lines (correct me if I was wrong).
And I was wondering, how many of you believe in god, or a surpreme being of any kind? I don't, not enough physical evidence to convince me.
I had a chat with a friend of mine about these religions, prolly not the most intelligent convo i've had considering I was the active speaker in it, but regardless I will post it below. For privacy reasons i m going to change her screen name.
»Like A Bad Star, I'm Falling Faster Down To Her. She's The Only One Who Knows What It Is To Burn« says:
*do U believe in god?
************************* says:
no
******************** says:
y?
»Like A Bad Star, I'm Falling Faster Down To Her. She's The Only One Who Knows What It Is To Burn« says:
just wondering
********************* says:
cool
»Like A Bad Star, I'm Falling Faster Down To Her. She's The Only One Who Knows What It Is To Burn« says:
it is perhaps the biggest load of crap ever. Everything we know about that guy 'up there' we have learnt or been told about from down here, how can NE normal person take that seriousely, base their life on it and expect other to do the same. No physical proof of his/it's existence has ever been found. I believe that this so called 'god' fellow is the ideolism of perfections in NE1 person's eyes.
********************* says:
true
»Like A Bad Star, I'm Falling Faster Down To Her. She's The Only One Who Knows What It Is To Burn« says:
That Allah dude that the arabs and muslims worship must promote violence or otherwise when these terrorist attacks occur U would not see those faggets dancing in the streets worshipping him after an attack.
No, 'god' does not exist, a surpreme being is even questionable. If the word 'god' is defined it is best defined as a person who worshipped by bvelievers in his/it's existence. If NE1 is worth
»Like A Bad Star, I'm Falling Faster Down To Her. She's The Only One Who Knows What It Is To Burn« says:
worshipping i would have to say it is NE1 who risks their lives for sum1 they have never met, do not know and do not intend on getting to them NE better. A person who is not afraid to express his emotions, to burn his/her bridges without fear of ridicule of any kind.




the main purpose of this post is to see who believes in god, and/or what R your interpretations of him/her/it?


 
dan632 Posted: Tue Dec 10 07:02:00 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I was reading that 'you worry ME' thread by ihadahif when this was going on, hence the arab part


 
FN Posted: Tue Dec 10 08:33:13 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  To answer your question: I only believe in myself, some might even say I am a supreme being lol ;o)

Anyway, I'd like to make a comment on your post:

dan632 said:
>That Allah dude that the arabs and muslims worship must promote violence or otherwise when these terrorist attacks occur U would not see those faggets dancing in the streets worshipping him after an attack.

This is something that you seem to be badly informed about.

The Koran actually preaches against war. However, some figures use their influence and the ignorance of their followers to convince them that what they're doing is good for their belief and that they're serving their god for this.

Don't blame those people for not being able to read or not being able to understand the koran, or being under the influence of some malicious person.

It's the guys on top, not the basic grunts, that are to blame


 
iggy Posted: Tue Dec 10 13:10:01 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the allah dude u say is also known to christians as God.

same god, different name.

the muslims have 3 sacred books.

one is the koran
2nd is the torah
and 3rd is the bible

so wat gives?

those tat want to criticise islam better be sure to make ur facts right...

the only difference between being a muslim and a christian is that the muslims belief that jesus was a prophet rather than the son of god nothing more...




 
Aeon Posted: Tue Dec 10 15:28:39 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I believe in God.

Dan, you need to realize something. Religion is based on FAITH. Faith is believing in something that you have no proof of. It wouldn't be Faith if God gave physical proof of his existence. And how do you know that those people are dancing in the streets singing praise to Allah because of a terrorist attack on America? How do you know it isn't American propaganda? Sure they're burning American flags. Americans do that, too. That is just a sign of protest, not a sign of hatred. What is wrong with believing in God? At least you have something to turn to, you have hope. If you're an atheist you have yourself. At least I can get my problems off my chest when I pray. No harm in that.


 
FN Posted: Tue Dec 10 15:46:29 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:
>At least you have something to turn to, you have hope. If you're an atheist you have yourself. At least I can get my problems off my chest when I pray. No harm in that.


So you'd rather have false hope than no hope huh.

Ever heard of the placebo-effect?


 
*m*a*s* Posted: Tue Dec 10 16:15:13 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Actually placebos in the form of sugar pills can actually have an effect, they release endorphins which is basically your brain's natural morphine. Salene solutions do something too but I can't quite remember it.

And I believe in God. Not because I was told to, not because I think I should, but because I feel that there is something out there. It reminds me of the movie contact where they're having the same debate. The lead character wouldn't believe in God because there was no proof. Then she was asked if she loved her father. She said yes. The questioner asked her to prove it.

For me, God's not something you can reach out and grab, it's something that is because you feel it. But that's just me, and in no way am I trying to impose my beliefs on you guys.


 
FN Posted: Tue Dec 10 16:37:07 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  If somebody hadn't told you about 'god' or whatever you want to call it, you wouldn't believe in it.

Btw sry if I'm pissing off people by the stuff I say about this subject, or if I piss people off because of it in the future, I really try to understand how you can believe in a religion but I just can't...


 
ifihadahif Posted: Tue Dec 10 16:48:38 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>If somebody hadn't told you about 'god' or whatever you want to call it, you wouldn't believe in it.
>
>Btw sry if I'm pissing off people by the stuff I say about this subject, or if I piss people off because of it in the future, I really try to understand how you can believe in a religion but I just can't...
believing in a god or a creator is a far cry from believing in a religion.


 
*m*a*s* Posted: Tue Dec 10 20:26:15 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Christophe said:

>believing in a god or a creator is a far cry from believing in a religion.


Agreed, I go to a catholic church but I don't believe in most of the aspects of the religion.


 
Aeon Posted: Wed Dec 11 19:41:33 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Aeon said:
>>At least you have something to turn to, you have hope. If you're an atheist you have yourself. At least I can get my problems off my chest when I pray. No harm in that.
>
>
>So you'd rather have false hope than no hope huh.
>
>Ever heard of the placebo-effect?


No. I only believe in what I know. When I didn't have God in my life I was the angriest most depressed person I have ever seen. I would hurt myself physically because I felt it was some outward expression of my own inner turmoil. I got in fights with my family, so much so that my mother told me she wished I had never been born and she wished I would just run away because I was a "poison" that only made her life miserable. She said she dreaded getting up in the morning because I would fight with her. So there she was, sitting there, crying, telling me all this. I couldn't even shed a tear. I didn't even feel sorry. Then I started thinking... she was right. I was angry and was taking it out on my family. That's when I was saved, I believe. I was sorry for the first time in a long time and I just started crying and I couldn't stop. So, yeah, I believe in God. I believe in myself, too. And Christophe, false hope is better than no hope at all. At least you have some facsimile of hope. What do you have to show for not believing in God, Christophe? I bet you don't have anything except depression.


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 05:08:51 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:
>What do you have to show for not believing in God, Christophe? I bet you don't have anything except depression.

So because MY emotional stability isn't depending on a dogma I'm automaticly depressed?

Don't confuse my rationalism with depression.

No offence, but I think that because of your history with your mother and all, you have forced yourself into 'believing'. I don't see what you starting to cry has to do with ''god''.

Btw, I'd rather have no hope than false hope, at least then you can do something about the situation, and if not you know what you're in for.

I don't see how beautiful lies could be better than the cruel truth? Which is basicly what religion is all about.

If you're happy with it it's fine with me, everybody spends his time as he or she pleases, if you're happy talking to an empty sky then that's what you should do, but don't make the assumption that because you're dependent on it everybody is.


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 05:10:24 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Christophe said:
>>If somebody hadn't told you about 'god' or whatever you want to call it, you wouldn't believe in it.
>>
>>Btw sry if I'm pissing off people by the stuff I say about this subject, or if I piss people off because of it in the future, I really try to understand how you can believe in a religion but I just can't...
>believing in a god or a creator is a far cry from believing in a religion.


Explain to me how it's any different


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 05:16:05 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  *m*a*s* said:
>Actually placebos in the form of sugar pills can actually have an effect, they release endorphins which is basically your brain's natural morphine. Salene solutions do something too but I can't quite remember it.
>

Lol I think everybody here knows what a placebo is, that's not the point.

>And I believe in God. Not because I was told to, not because I think I should, but because I feel that there is something out there.

If nobody had ever told you about a 'god' how would you ever believe in one.

>It reminds me of the movie contact where they're having the same debate. The lead character wouldn't believe in God because there was no proof. Then she was asked if she loved her father. She said yes. The questioner asked her to prove it.
>

That's typical to movies that try to come across as deeply philosofical. I hate that. It's bullshit. It's something completly, yes, completly different.

>For me, God's not something you can reach out and grab, it's something that is because you feel it.

So "you don't know what it is, but it's there." (line from 'the matrix')

>But that's just me, and in no way am I trying to impose my beliefs on you guys.

Neither am I, just showing my point of view.


 
Aeon Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:18:07 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Aeon said:
>>What do you have to show for not believing in God, Christophe? I bet you don't have anything except depression.
>
>So because MY emotional stability isn't depending on a dogma I'm automaticly depressed?
>
>Don't confuse my rationalism with depression.
>
>No offence, but I think that because of your history with your mother and all, you have forced yourself into 'believing'. I don't see what you starting to cry has to do with ''god''.
>
>Btw, I'd rather have no hope than false hope, at least then you can do something about the situation, and if not you know what you're in for.
>
>I don't see how beautiful lies could be better than the cruel truth? Which is basicly what religion is all about.
>
>If you're happy with it it's fine with me, everybody spends his time as he or she pleases, if you're happy talking to an empty sky then that's what you should do, but don't make the assumption that because you're dependent on it everybody is.


Christophe, you're the reason people get killed in the name of God. If I knew you I probably would kill you.


 
Aeon Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:22:24 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>*m*a*s* said:
>>Actually placebos in the form of sugar pills can actually have an effect, they release endorphins which is basically your brain's natural morphine. Salene solutions do something too but I can't quite remember it.
>>
>
>Lol I think everybody here knows what a placebo is, that's not the point.
>
>>And I believe in God. Not because I was told to, not because I think I should, but because I feel that there is something out there.
>
>If nobody had ever told you about a 'god' how would you ever believe in one.
>
>>It reminds me of the movie contact where they're having the same debate. The lead character wouldn't believe in God because there was no proof. Then she was asked if she loved her father. She said yes. The questioner asked her to prove it.
>>
>
>That's typical to movies that try to come across as deeply philosofical. I hate that. It's bullshit. It's something completly, yes, completly different.
>
>>For me, God's not something you can reach out and grab, it's something that is because you feel it.
>
>So "you don't know what it is, but it's there." (line from 'the matrix')
>
>>But that's just me, and in no way am I trying to impose my beliefs on you guys.
>
>Neither am I, just showing my point of view.

Except, Christophe, by showing your point of view, you go out of the way to insult/demean someone else's point of view. Everything you've said about your "point of view" has been in response to someone else's opinion. Your opinion is one of new age, "I'm better than God" bull shit. If God showed up right now and was talking to him you wouldn't believe he was God. Why? Because you're just as closeminded as a religious zealot. The door swings both ways.


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:23:22 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:
>Christophe, you're the reason people get killed in the name of God. If I knew you I probably would kill you.

Lol. Should I be impressed/offended/scared/whatever?

Why would you kill me? :o)


 
Aeon Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:23:43 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:
>Christophe said:
>>*m*a*s* said:
>>>Actually placebos in the form of sugar pills can actually have an effect, they release endorphins which is basically your brain's natural morphine. Salene solutions do something too but I can't quite remember it.
>>>
>>
>>Lol I think everybody here knows what a placebo is, that's not the point.
>>
>>>And I believe in God. Not because I was told to, not because I think I should, but because I feel that there is something out there.
>>
>>If nobody had ever told you about a 'god' how would you ever believe in one.
>>
>>>It reminds me of the movie contact where they're having the same debate. The lead character wouldn't believe in God because there was no proof. Then she was asked if she loved her father. She said yes. The questioner asked her to prove it.
>>>
>>
>>That's typical to movies that try to come across as deeply philosofical. I hate that. It's bullshit. It's something completly, yes, completly different.
>>
>>>For me, God's not something you can reach out and grab, it's something that is because you feel it.
>>
>>So "you don't know what it is, but it's there." (line from 'the matrix')
>>
>>>But that's just me, and in no way am I trying to impose my beliefs on you guys.
>>
>>Neither am I, just showing my point of view.
>
>Except, Christophe, by showing your point of view, you go out of the way to insult/demean someone else's point of view. Everything you've said about your "point of view" has been in response to someone else's opinion. Your opinion is one of new age, "I'm better than God" bull shit. If God showed up right now and was talking to him you wouldn't believe he was God. Why? Because you're just as closeminded as a religious zealot. The door swings both ways.


^correction: "If God showed up right now and you were talking to him you wouldn't believe he was God."



 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:26:47 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:
>Christophe, you're the reason people get killed in the name of God. If I knew you I probably would kill you.


Aeon said:
>What do you have to show for not believing in God, Christophe? I bet you don't have anything except depression.


Tell me, who's the one getting agressive here? Shouldn't you be turning the other cheek right now?

Anyway, you're the one who stated that I must be depressed because I don't believe in 'god'


 
*m*a*s* Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:26:52 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:

>Except, Christophe, by showing your point of view, you go out of the way to insult/demean someone else's point of view.

Aw you beat me to it, that's exactly what I wanted to say. By sharing my beliefs I wasn't trying to challenge yours Christophe. Why would you (uselessly I might add) do the same to me?


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:29:12 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  *m*a*s* said:
>Aeon said:
>
>>Except, Christophe, by showing your point of view, you go out of the way to insult/demean someone else's point of view.
>
>Aw you beat me to it, that's exactly what I wanted to say. By sharing my beliefs I wasn't trying to challenge yours Christophe. Why would you (uselessly I might add) do the same to me?

Sorry but the things that I reply I just see as conversation.

It's not that because you don't agree with it that you have to automaticly label it as being offencive


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:31:38 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:
>Except, Christophe, by showing your point of view, you go out of the way to insult/demean someone else's point of view.

By showing your point of view (if you don't believe in 'god' you must be depressed) you have insulted me, not the other way around.

I said nothing to insult you, I just replied


 
*m*a*s* Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:35:41 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>*m*a*s* said:

>It's not that because you don't agree with it that you have to automaticly label it as being offencive

I label what you say as offensive because in a conversation a free exchange of ideas usually takes place where both opinions are seen as valid. I do think that your opinion on faith is valid, but the way you throw down people's beliefs and faiths because you don't see it that way it shows that you have no respect for those beliefs. That's not conversation, that's simply being an ass.


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:50:01 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  *m*a*s* said:
>Christophe said:
>>*m*a*s* said:
>
>>It's not that because you don't agree with it that you have to automaticly label it as being offencive
>
>I label what you say as offensive because in a conversation a free exchange of ideas usually takes place where both opinions are seen as valid. I do think that your opinion on faith is valid, but the way you throw down people's beliefs and faiths because you don't see it that way it shows that you have no respect for those beliefs. That's not conversation, that's simply being an ass.

It's your right to think of me as an asshole, but that has nothin to do with it.

Why does everything that gets said have to be covered with a layer of sugar so it isn't too harsh.

Why can't I just get to the point of what I'm saying?

I expect you to do the same, that's all, if you don't, that's your choice, but don't expect me to feel sorry for just saying what I think without meaning any harm or anything.

If I hit a nerve on accident it's probably because you're too afraid to admid it, I don't see why you have to get pissed off by the stuff I said, I honestly don't


 
Michael Posted: Thu Dec 12 14:55:39 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I hate to break it to you Dan, but your counter conversationist defined Christianity as the only religion. Jesus Christ died for everyone without ever personally meeting them. He didn't just die for his apostles or for a select few, he died for every person that's been born, From Barabas to you and me. He died for you without ever knowing you. Is that not your definition of worthy to worship?


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:07:51 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Michael said:
>I hate to break it to you Dan, but your counter conversationist defined Christianity as the only religion. Jesus Christ died for everyone without ever personally meeting them. He didn't just die for his apostles or for a select few, he died for every person that's been born, From Barabas to you and me. He died for you without ever knowing you. Is that not your definition of worthy to worship?

How do you know if you've never met him?


 
Michael Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:13:13 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Romans 3:23-For all have sinned and fall shor of the glory of God.
Romans 6:23-The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 3:3- Jesus DECLARED, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
John 14:6-I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Romans 10:9-11- That if you confess with your mouth, :Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
2 Corinthians 5:15- And he died for all...
John 3:16-For God so loved the world that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
Ephesians 2:8-9-For by grace are you saved through faith, and that
not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of
works, lest any man should boast.






 
Michael Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:16:34 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'll not give you a fight, Christophe. I'll present God's Word and it's entirely you decision after that. I'll pray for you though.

PS. I say none of this in spite, though it may seem so. It is not meant to anger or ripple the water.


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:19:14 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Oh, sorry, if it's in a book then it MUST be true!

Btw, most of the stuff that's in the bible was written years after "jesus"'s death, if there ever was a "jesus" that is.

Actually, I've read something interesting about it just this afternoon when learning for one of my exams for tomorrow. There is an article in it that israelian archeologists have concluded that there never even was an exodus out of egypt, and that's one of the biggest story in the whole book isn't it?


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:20:54 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Michael said:
>I'll not give you a fight, Christophe. I'll present God's Word and it's entirely you decision after that. I'll pray for you though.
>
>PS. I say none of this in spite, though it may seem so. It is not meant to anger or ripple the water.


I'm not intending on starting a fight either.

Understand one thing though, although I realise that it's meant well, don't 'pray' for me, I see it as insulting rather than as complementing.


 
Michael Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:29:51 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'd be interested in reading that myself. Please post the website or mail it to me. Yes, much of the new testament was written years after the death of Jesus. John was written around AD 85 by Apostle John, son of Zebedee. Romans was written by Paul in AD 57 as was Ephesians in AD 60, and 2 Cor. in AD 55. The Truth is presented Christophe. I'm not going to sit and tell you that you HAVE to believe it; you don't. Accept God, reject Him. You are given a choice. It's not so trivial as you jest, but it is your decision.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:30:25 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Michael said:
>Romans 3:23-For all have sinned and fall shor of the glory of God.
>Romans 6:23-The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
>John 3:3- Jesus DECLARED, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
>John 14:6-I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
>Romans 10:9-11- That if you confess with your mouth, :Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
>2 Corinthians 5:15- And he died for all...
>John 3:16-For God so loved the world that He gave His only
>begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him
>should not perish but have everlasting life.
>Ephesians 2:8-9-For by grace are you saved through faith, and that
>not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of
>works, lest any man should boast.
>
>
>
> The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
He makes me down to lie
Through pastures green He leadeth me the silent waters by.
With bright knives He releaseth my soul.
He maketh me to hang on hooks in high places.
He converteth me to lamb cutlets,
For lo, He hath great power, and great hunger.
When cometh the day we lowly ones,
Through quiet reflection, and great dedication
Master the art of karate,
Lo, we shall rise up,
And then we'll make the bugger's eyes water.
--pink floyd


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 15:43:23 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Michael said:
>I'd be interested in reading that myself. Please post the website or mail it to me. Yes, much of the new testament was written years after the death of Jesus. John was written around AD 85 by Apostle John, son of Zebedee. Romans was written by Paul in AD 57 as was Ephesians in AD 60, and 2 Cor. in AD 55. The Truth is presented Christophe. I'm not going to sit and tell you that you HAVE to believe it; you don't. Accept God, reject Him. You are given a choice. It's not so trivial as you jest, but it is your decision.

I don't know if you were ever trained in critical analysation of texts, but have you ever done the experiment with the urban legend?

It goes a little like this:
Our teacher took 1 student with him out of the class, and told that 1 person a story. He came back and another person had to go out and the first student would tell the story to the second one, and so on. There were around 15 students in that class, and the whole proces took about an hour.

The last student had to tell the story to the whole class.

The story that he told was about 10 times worse than the original one (the original story was told to us afterwards by our teacher to show us the point of it. It was about a man who had been put to sleep and had his kidny removed and who woke up inside a bathtub full of ice with a scar on his side so when he had it examined the doctors told him that his kidney was taken out). By the time the story was told by the final student the person was supposed to have been kidnapped and knocked unconscious and EVERY organ in the man's body was removed, but still he had been able to wake up and get to the hospital and so on.

My point: this happened in an hour, with people that had no intend on making the story unbelievable or anything, the objective was to just tell the story to eachother and that what's everybody did.

Now imagine letting this proces go on for lets say 50->70 years.

What do you get?

The bible


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 16:12:00 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Michael said:
>I'd be interested in reading that myself.

Ok, I've searched high and low for this and finally found it back, it's in dutch so I'll translate it:


- Extract from 'Het Volk' (The People), Belgian Newspaper -

JERUZALEM - He poeple of Israel have never been enslaved in Egypt, and they never had to wander for years in the Sinai desert, and they never conquered the land of Kanaän. These are the conclusions of the jewish professor in archeology Seev Herzog, who wrote and article about it in the week-end edition of the israelian newspaper "Ha'aretz". "The biblical age has never happened. After 70 years of excavations, me and my colleagues have come to a frightening conclusion: nothing about the holy writings (Bible) are true", wrote Mr. Herzog. Most Israelian archeologists have agreed that a mass exodus of the jews out of Egypt, through the Red Sea, under the leadership of Moses is nothing more than a myth, and not a historical fact. Also the siege of Jericho and the trumpets that made the city walls crumble have been accepted as pure fiction. Herzog takes it even further: "David and Solomon did not rule over a mighty empire, but they were the founders of provincial dynasties that had no real power. The city of Jeruzalem that was found by king David was during the biblical age nothing more than an unknown village."

From 'Het Volk'


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu Dec 12 16:13:55 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  arguing over the creation of it seems even more dumb then arguing over if god exists or not. Yes, stories were probably changed for the better or for the worse but if people are just following ideas it doesn't really matter where they come from as long as people believe in em. Don't believe in Jesus Christ? fine, but it still doesn't mean you can't believe in many ideas that he represented. Sometimes you gotta let contradictions fly and pull what you can out of things.


 
FN Posted: Thu Dec 12 16:14:17 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sorry about the typos in the text I didn't reread it, but I think you all know what they are supposed to mean.

Btw, Michael, I swear that I did not alter anything about it in case you shouldn't believe me


 
Asswipe Posted: Thu Dec 12 21:14:15 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i like how the guy makes a point to tell us that Moses never really parted the Red Sea... thanks mr scientist for clearing shit up


 
Michael Posted: Thu Dec 12 21:24:57 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Thank you much Christophe.


 
FN Posted: Fri Dec 13 04:55:13 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>i like how the guy makes a point to tell us that Moses never really parted the Red Sea... thanks mr scientist for clearing shit up

Lol. That wasn't the point. I don't think anybody still believed the red sea parted, at best it would just have been a dry period so the water had rectracted.

Anyway, like I said, that's not the point, the point is that there probably never was an exodus, so one of the main stories in the bible is a lie, so why wouldn't the others be?


 
Aeon Posted: Sat Dec 14 01:45:52 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>Aeon said:
>>Except, Christophe, by showing your point of view, you go out of the way to insult/demean someone else's point of view.
>
>By showing your point of view (if you don't believe in 'god' you must be depressed) you have insulted me, not the other way around.
>
>I said nothing to insult you, I just replied


No. I know you are depressed because I remember things you've said and I saw your website. That isn't even an insult, Christophe. You're just looking for something to twist it around on me. I was the same as you, Christophe. I was always depressed. But when I found God I lost that depression.


 
FN Posted: Sat Dec 14 06:11:23 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:
>No. I know you are depressed because I remember things you've said and I saw your website. That isn't even an insult, Christophe. You're just looking for something to twist it around on me. I was the same as you, Christophe. I was always depressed. But when I found God I lost that depression.


Who are you to judge me?

And btw, I'm convinced that we're both totally different.

And what's wrong with my website? (the old one at least, they're not online anymore, just some files, gonna make a new one when I got the time)

Aeon said:
>That isn't even an insult, Christophe.

So when I say something and people get pissed off by it it's an insult, but the other way around it isn't?

Once again: don't think that because you're the way you are everybody is.

For the 100th time: don't mistake my rationalism with depression


 
Asswipe Posted: Sat Dec 14 15:46:04 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon said:

>>Aeon said:

>
>No. I know you are depressed because I remember things you've said and I saw your website. That isn't even an insult, Christophe. You're just looking for something to twist it around on me. I was the same as you, Christophe. I was always depressed. But when I found God I lost that depression.

where did you find sir God? I'd like to have a chat w/ him about some stuff

why do people need to make shit up to be happy and comfortable in this world? I mean, there's always gotta be that hint of reality in some corner of your mind that has some clue of what's going on and realizes that this mystical and fictional god was brewed up for the sole purpose of just that.

What did it take for you to "find" god? shock therapy?... just kidding, seriously what did it take?


 
aurora Posted: Sat Dec 14 18:51:50 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  this is all just getting redundant...


 
FN Posted: Sun Dec 15 05:06:14 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>why do people need to make shit up to be happy and comfortable in this world? I mean, there's always gotta be that hint of reality in some corner of your mind that has some clue of what's going on and realizes that this mystical and fictional god was brewed up for the sole purpose of just that.

My thoughts exactly


 
FN Posted: Sun Dec 15 05:07:46 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  aurora said:
>this is all just getting redundant...


If you don't agree let us know why and give us some valid reasons.

Where are all the other 'believers' by the way?


 
joy Posted: Sun Dec 15 08:43:39 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  aurora said:
>this is all just getting redundant...


amen. (no pun intended haha). but seriously. haven't you guys already had this arguement in like, five other threads already?


you need to settle down. take a valium, or a nap or something


 
Asswipe Posted: Sun Dec 15 14:32:38 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the main thing i wanted to know from aeon was how he went about finding god... the question is open to everyone i guess... just give me something concrete, if it's possible... if it's not then shrugadub


 
Aeon Posted: Wed Dec 18 19:29:26 2002 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Asswipe said:
>the main thing i wanted to know from aeon was how he went about finding god... the question is open to everyone i guess... just give me something concrete, if it's possible... if it's not then shrugadub


I just genuinely wanted a relationship with God. And it happened. I didn't go on any quest or spiritual fast or nothing... no vision quest. Just wanted to get close to the big G.


 
mat_j Posted: Thu Jan 23 10:23:35 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Dudes, how many of these doughnut arguments to we have to have about religion on this site. Whenever Someone new comes in they start this kind of thread. Then Christophe comes along and the arguments start then some other people join in and yadda yadda. Nothing is ever accomplished nobody ever changes, i wish someone would read some of the orignals instead of starting these again.

This thread as i see it can end in only two ways


1. judgement day comes Chris gets judged probabaly goes to heaven because he was an alright guy

2. Patrick kicks the can. Dies, the lights go out, nothing else happens. Patrick doesn't care he's non existant any more, the people around him say hay, wasn't Patrick a nice guy, he's probabaly looking down on us all now.

Sorry i had to pretend you were both dead.

As long as we live our lives not harming others we'll be alright, I'm a catholic my house mate Fil is a protestant northern irish man, my other house mate Lee is a Big scarey metaller i haven't been bombed by Fil He hasn't been shot by me, and neither of us have had our hearts torn out and offered to Maralyn Manson. we all win.

Anyway as soon as judgement day comes the true enemy will be revealled. Those smelly agnostics!

:-D

Mat


 
mat_j Posted: Thu Jan 23 10:29:59 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Dudes........... The other threads they've like..... gone!!!!!


 
iggy Posted: Thu Jan 23 10:47:28 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I KNOW!!!!

argh!!!!
there goes the history of GT


 
antartica Posted: Fri Jan 24 01:09:03 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  quick to the DeLorean!



 
iggy Posted: Fri Jan 24 02:22:20 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  i much prefer the flying train though ahahhaha


 
dan632 Posted: Fri Jan 24 10:01:04 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  mate you gotta go for what they were orignally going to put in it - a fridge


 
Christian Posted: Tue Mar 11 14:34:04 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hmmm...
interesting that you said

Christophe said:

>if there ever was a "jesus" that is.


the "historical" jesus is well documented... some see him as the son of god, and some as a man,
why would there be a question of...or a "need" to deny his existence? hmmmm...just curious....



 
FN Posted: Tue Mar 11 17:01:29 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  With 'jesus' I'm not talking about the human being called 'jesus' I'm talking about who 'he' is advertised to be


 
webmaster Posted: Wed Mar 12 00:42:22 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The topic of religion never fails to resurface. One thing we have learnt is that we can't really argue with faith, and that is why I seldom participate in such discussions.

However, when one quotes the Bible to confirm one's faith, the Bible, which is the foundation of the Christian faith, we should always question the validity of the source.

If a man comes up to you on the street and tells you he had a meeting with God last night, would you believe him? If not, why would you even believe the Gospels, which were written years after Jesus' death, and generally agreed that none of the gospels were by people who had even met Jesus. It was the Church that collected books, writings and texts, and then decided which books should go into the Bible, and which should not, *as if* the Word of God can be decided by man.

A Word of God, if there ever was one, should be available to all, hidden from none. It must be unrefutable, not opened to translation or misinterpretation, a million years ago, and a million years from now.

The Bible, as a history reference, is an excellent source. But the inconsistencies, the absurdities and atrocities attributed to God by the authors themselves cause me to question whether God is really as such. Some claim that the Bible is subjective and we will find the Word if we searched. But in our world, it is subjectiveness and misinterpretation that cause wars, hatred, suffering and death.

The Bible is the foundation of the Christian faith, but this foundation has been found wanting.


 
Trix Posted: Tue Jul 15 01:58:03 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hey guys, this is an e-mail i recently received, and it makes sense. here it is...> Mary had a little lamb,
>
> His fleece was white as snow.
>
> And everywhere that Mary went,
>
> The Lamb was sure to go.
>
> He followed her to school each day,
>
> T'wasn't even in the rule.
>
> It made the children laugh and play,
>
> To have a Lamb at school.
>
> And then the rules all changed one day,
>
> Illegal it became;
>
> To bring the Lamb of God to school,
>
> Or even speak His Name.! ;
>
> Every day got worse and worse,
>
> And days turned into years.
>
> Instead of hearing children laugh,
>
> We heard gun shots and tears.
>
> What must we do to stop the crime,
>
> That's in our schools today?
>
> Let's let the Lamb come back to school,
>
> And teach our kids to pray!
>
> If you agree, please pass this on
> =====================================
> It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to shut up and sit down????

i myself am a christian, but being a christian doesn't mean that the world is fabulous and your happy all the time. everyone experiences their down times, right now i'm going through that, i can't remember the last time i prayed, and i've been getting into a lot of trouble lately and hanging out with people i probably shouldnt', but i'm having a hell of a good time. christians can have fun just like everyone else, you just have a different point of view than ppl who don't believe in God. when a christian goes thru times like i am, they usually eventually come back closer to God than ever. Right now it doesn't seem that i ever will be like i used to be, but i stil believe, i've just changed a bit. everyone has their point of view, as they should, that is just part of mine


 
mere being Posted: Mon Jul 28 16:24:11 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  webmaster said:
>However, when one quotes the Bible to confirm one's faith, the Bible, which is the foundation of the Christian faith, we should always question the validity of the source.
>
>If a man comes up to you on the street and tells you he had a meeting with God last night, would you believe him? If not, why would you even believe the Gospels, which were written years after Jesus' death, and generally agreed that none of the gospels were by people who had even met Jesus. It was the Church that collected books, writings and texts, and then decided which books should go into the Bible, and which should not, *as if* the Word of God can be decided by man.
>
>A Word of God, if there ever was one, should be available to all, hidden from none. It must be unrefutable, not opened to translation or misinterpretation, a million years ago, and a million years from now.
>
>The Bible, as a history reference, is an excellent source. But the inconsistencies, the absurdities and atrocities attributed to God by the authors themselves cause me to question whether God is really as such. Some claim that the Bible is subjective and we will find the Word if we searched. But in our world, it is subjectiveness and misinterpretation that cause wars, hatred, suffering and death.
>
>The Bible is the foundation of the Christian faith, but this foundation has been found wanting.

hey, i see you've got 2 problems - 1 with the rational validity of the bible and 2 - how cruelly is God represented in it..

so ad 1: well, yes, the gospels (except John's i think) have been written by people who didn't even see Jesus, but what makes me confident about their truthfulness is that they have been written at diferent places far away from each other, at different times and if they are all the same, then it can hardly be a chance or a hoodwinked conspiracy. humph?

ad 2: yeah, it is strange that God from the old testament is totally different from God in the new one, but i think that, well, God was good in the begining, with a motherly, unconditionned love. But then people gained consciousness and with it, they began to sin. They got away from God and so, of course, they imagined him as a father, who loves at the condition you're good. So God raised them up to the point where he sent Jesus who is supposed to be an example to be followed. i don't know, but it's perhaps a bit wise. all religions and humanistic philosophies praise the destruction of narcissism. Jesus's sacrifice is just that. i hope it works out...
peace


 
mere being Posted: Mon Jul 28 16:34:14 2003 Post | Quote in Reply  
  dan632 said:
If NE1 is worth worshipping i would have to say it is NE1 who risks their lives for sum1 they have never met, do not know and do not intend on getting to them NE better. A person who is not afraid to express his emotions, to burn his/her bridges without fear of ridicule of any kind.
>
well isn't it the christian and ++ other religions who teach this?

btw sorry for being a bit outdated


 
trogdor57 Posted: Thu Jan 15 18:53:35 2004 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Aeon, I'm glad to hear someone is in the same boat as me, as well as Trix. It is hard at times to be a christian, especially with all the skeptics, but at the same time, it can be very rewarding. As much as people jest at our forms of praise, keep this in mind:

There's a Japanese proverb that says: We are fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.




 



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