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Theory vs Belief
Mark Posted: Wed Mar 30 06:23:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1548&ncid=1548&e=1&u=/afp/20050327/lf_afp/uspoliticsreligion

So... because Darwinism is only a theory and Christianity is a belief it is better to teach Christianity, because Darwinism has not been proven to be right... Great thinking :s


 
CorDrine Posted: Wed Mar 30 06:41:54 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Good read! My A-level biology teacher skipped the whole chapter on Darwin because she told us she can't teach something that is against her belief! She ask us to study it ourselves to pass the exam. She was a great teacher, but somehow, she fail us there and then.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Wed Mar 30 06:45:04 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Wolffie said:
>http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1548&ncid=1548&e=1&u=/afp/20050327/lf_afp/uspoliticsreligion
>
>So... because Darwinism is only a theory and Christianity is a belief it is better to teach Christianity, because Darwinism has not been proven to be right... Great thinking :s
>
That is not what the article said.
They were told to teach creationism as well as Darwinism. No one was told to teach Christianity.


 
addi Posted: Wed Mar 30 07:21:27 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  "intelligent design"
just a fancy way to say Creationism.

"Darwinism is only a theory" Hell, 50% of science is theory. We constantly learn new facts as research is done and add to, or dismiss current scientific theories.

For the past century every bit of new evidence found has substantiated (or modified) Darwin's theories on the evolution of species. It hasn't refuted it.
Perhaps some day we will discover something new that will cast a strong shadow of doubt on this theory, but untill that happens, IF that happens, rational minds accept the overwhelming amount of current evidence that points to humans evolving from lower life forms.
One of the (many)problems I think too many Christians make is to assume that if they accept the theory of evolution then they can't believe in a God behind man's creation. They throw the baby out with the bathwash.
How arrogant.
Who can know the mind of God?

The fact that this is still a contraversy here just shows me that a significant amount of Americans are still stuck back in the 1920's.

If science threatens your god, then your god is too small.


 
FN Posted: Wed Mar 30 07:42:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I've always asked myself what the difference is between american christians and european ones.

There are some die-hard christians here (still not the sort that would go out and protest for the teri thing though) but I have honnestly never heard anything like it over here, and I'm pretty sure anybody trying to force creationism being tought would be laughed at, if not lynched.

Anybody got an idea of where this difference might originate from? I know there are different christian chapters sort of speak but I would be pretty surprised if they actually differ THAT much from each other that you create fundamentalists on one side and more moderate people in another chapter.


 
addi Posted: Wed Mar 30 07:46:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:

>Anybody got an idea of where this difference might originate from?

It's ironic.
It all started with the first colonists from....

Europe

*oversimplified, yet a good amount of truth to it.


 
Posted: Wed Mar 30 08:00:27 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  The BIG problem is this: they're teaching it in motherfucking biology class. Why biology? Creationist propaganda should perhaps have it's own course. Don't infiltrate genuine science with strikingly unfounded rhetoric.

Blind religious fundamentalism has no place in a biology class, just as biological principles have no place in bible study.


 
beetlebum Posted: Wed Mar 30 08:49:51 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:

>Anybody got an idea of where this difference might originate from? I know there are different christian chapters sort of speak but I would be pretty surprised if they actually differ THAT much from each other that you create fundamentalists on one side and more moderate people in another chapter.

I remember reading that WWI and WWII had a profound effect on the number of believers (and how literally they took the Bible) in Europe, Britain included.


 
Aeon Posted: Wed Mar 30 12:48:03 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  CriminalSaint said:
>The BIG problem is this: they're teaching it in motherfucking biology class. Why biology? Creationist propaganda should perhaps have it's own course. Don't infiltrate genuine science with strikingly unfounded rhetoric.
>
>Blind religious fundamentalism has no place in a biology class, just as biological principles have no place in bible study.


Reminds me of Principal Chamers: "God has no place within these walls... just as facts have no place in organized religion!"


 
DanSRose Posted: Wed Mar 30 13:32:25 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  America was founded and became a haven for fundamentalist religion. Oddly enough, since it was a blank slate, it also attracted mercantalism and capitalism, ie: the search for gold. weee
Also, many groups sought the New World as a place to bring Christ, physically, as the usher of Golden Age. Mormonism was founded like this, as well as the Puritans of New England. This led to the witch trials, harsh punishments akin to the Inquisition for minor offenses (even in those days), and the gradual extermination of the Native population, something which the mercantiles of East Indies Shipping Company and the like didn't care much about.
I'll add more about this later, but...
Evolution is scientific theory. Other scientific theories include gravity, the Special Theories of Relativty, quantum mechanics, electricity, much psychology, etc.
This is a good explanation of what a scientific theory is, lifted from a Rochester education website:
A scientific theory or law represents an hypothesis, or a group of related hypotheses, which has been confirmed through repeated experimental tests. Theories in physics are often formulated in terms of a few concepts and equations, which are identified with "laws of nature," suggesting their universal applicability. Accepted scientific theories and laws become part of our understanding of the universe and the basis for exploring less well-understood areas of knowledge. Theories are not easily discarded; new discoveries are first assumed to fit into the existing theoretical framework. It is only when, after repeated experimental tests, the new phenomenon cannot be accommodated that scientists seriously question the theory and attempt to modify it. The validity that we attach to scientific theories as representing realities of the physical world is to be contrasted with the facile invalidation implied by the expression, "It's only a theory." For example, it is unlikely that a person will step off a tall building on the assumption that they will not fall, because "Gravity is only a theory."

Another great explanation, from Scientific American:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF&pageNumber=1&catID=2



 
addi Posted: Wed Mar 30 13:47:05 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Cooper: "You know America was founded by prudes. Prudes who left Europe, because they hated all the kinky, steamy European sex that was going on. And now I, uh, Cooper Harris, will return to the land of my perverted forefathers and claim my birthright, which is a series of erotic and sexually challenging adventures.
(Eurotrip)

and this one has nothing to do with nothing...it just makes me laugh

(at a nude beach that turns out to be all guys)

Scotty: "There's so many penises."
Jamie: "Frommer's tried to tell you, but you just didn't listen."
Cooper: "This is the biggest sausage fest on earth."
Scotty: "It's the international house of sausage."

*this movie killed a few million of my brain cells



 
Mark Posted: Thu Mar 31 00:38:26 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>Wolffie said:
>>So... because Darwinism is only a theory and Christianity is a belief it is better to teach Christianity, because Darwinism has not been proven to be right... Great thinking :s
>>
>That is not what the article said.
>They were told to teach creationism as well as Darwinism. No one was told to teach Christianity.
Read between the lines.

-- "Evolution is just a theory and there are other theories," Mummert explained, smiling through his beard.

"There is such a complexity in life, and science wants to hang its hat on a belief that life somehow started -- they say there is no creator, no order ... I believe there is a creator," he said.

Both sides acknowledge the political context of the debate over Darwinism, and the relation to the re-election of staunchly Christian President George W. Bush.

"Christians are a lot more bold under Bush's leadership, he speaks what a lot of us believe," said Mummert.

"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," he said, adding that the school board's declaration is just a first step. --

I don't know about you, but I don't see his last statement (about being attacked) as really intelligent :p

-- "It took 30 or 40 years to eliminate God in school, it will take probably 30 or 40 years to get him back. You take a little step first, a little bite, then another little bite and another," said Steve Farrell, a nursery keeper, who dreams of the return to prayer in class. --

And besides, the leaders (your leaders) think it is true so why not just follow the great leader. Be a good herd animal.

This reminds me by the way on what I once saw (about a year ago) in something what is (translated) called "The Church for Youngsters". The guy preaching there stated that scientific people said common sence would bring freedom, but, the guy continued, they are wrong. Blind belief is what brings freedom, blind belief in the Christian God... and all those kids just cheered at it.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Thu Mar 31 06:38:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Wolffie said:
>ifihadahif said:
>>Wolffie said:
>>>So... because Darwinism is only a theory and Christianity is a belief it is better to teach Christianity, because Darwinism has not been proven to be right... Great thinking :s
>>>
>>That is not what the article said.
>>They were told to teach creationism as well as Darwinism. No one was told to teach Christianity.
>Read between the lines.
>
>-- "Evolution is just a theory and there are other theories," Mummert explained, smiling through his beard.
>
>"There is such a complexity in life, and science wants to hang its hat on a belief that life somehow started -- they say there is no creator, no order ... I believe there is a creator," he said.
>
>Both sides acknowledge the political context of the debate over Darwinism, and the relation to the re-election of staunchly Christian President George W. Bush.
>
>"Christians are a lot more bold under Bush's leadership, he speaks what a lot of us believe," said Mummert.
>
>"We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," he said, adding that the school board's declaration is just a first step. --
>
>I don't know about you, but I don't see his last statement (about being attacked) as really intelligent :p
>
>-- "It took 30 or 40 years to eliminate God in school, it will take probably 30 or 40 years to get him back. You take a little step first, a little bite, then another little bite and another," said Steve Farrell, a nursery keeper, who dreams of the return to prayer in class. --
>
>And besides, the leaders (your leaders) think it is true so why not just follow the great leader. Be a good herd animal.
>
None of those quoted above were on the school board and had no authority whatsoever to determine what will or will not be taught there.
One wonders how many people had to be interviewed to get those few quotes in the article.


 
addi Posted: Thu Mar 31 08:01:38 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>One wonders how many people had to be interviewed to get those few quotes in the article.

: )

I'd venture to guess about 6 people.

It's extremely easy to find ignorant people. They're everywhere


 
sweet p Posted: Thu Mar 31 23:03:17 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  This is one of the very few topics that can go on forever and ever that I actually enjoy listening to people argue about.

I think they are two separate things. I think it's good to learn and understand both. But you don't mix the teachings. That's like teaching English in a French class just so that the students can know for sure that there is another language other than French.


 
son-perdition Posted: Mon Apr 16 20:48:11 2007 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the two are compatable, but still is an end time sign other than the abomination of desolation http://jesus-survival.com/Abomination-desolation.htm


 



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