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sad about mister pope
sweet p Posted: Fri Apr 1 03:36:23 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I think I'm crazy.
And soon you will think so too.

I was lying in bed and trying to sleep but that never works out for me.
So then I got to thinking.
And thinking some more.
And now I am sad.
Tired and sad.
But I can't sleep.

One of the things I was thinking is that I could wake up tomorrow [technically, "today"] and the pope could be dead.

Then I thought about how I don't really know anything about the pope, I don't particularily care about the pope and his death would have no super direct effect on me. Then I questioned if that was true.

Even though there are people dying everyday, and right this instant, and there are things like killer earthquakes and murders and accidents allll the time, my mind was focused on this man and him dying and people all over the world who seem to care about him.

I thought about all these people far away from me who are praying incessantly for him. Then I thought about this thing called "praying". I don't really do it anymore but sometimes at dinners I will go along and be polite. But I always think "These words mean what they mean and they are disappearing into the air."
But as I was lying in bed, I realised that there are all these people around the globe who ACTUALLY pray...to SOMEONE...SOMETHING...and their words "aren't" disappearing into the air. And they really believe this. Really. And right now, there are a million words floating around asking for god to give this one man health and strength and life. And all I can think is "Man, that is some fucked up shit."

When the pope dies, there will be a lot of sad people walking around on this planet. It is a sad idea. But these people will ACTUALLY be sad the way they ACTUALLY pray.

And I think that's crazy! But cool. Because this is just one of the things and people that exist in my world that I will never ever ever understand fully. And so I will never be bored, and there will always be something to complain about, something to not like, something to wonder about and something to question. And somehow this makes me happy enough to start feeling sad about the pope dying.

......




 
sweet p Posted: Fri Apr 1 03:49:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I can't sleep until I get everything that is moving inside my head out.
So, as a sidenote:


I also like how universal, I guess, emotional expressions are.
I think this might be another reason I started feeling sad.
I imagine being in a foreign land and not being able to understand a single word. But I would understand the tears of a woman crying for her child's death and I would understand the surprise in someone's eyes when hearing exciting news. And sometimes that is why I can like [almost] anyone.

Even if they are awful, ignorant, mean, too crazy for even me to understand...
Because they still feel things that I do.
And we're all going to die anyway, so I know what they're headed towards despite the current situation.

I think I could even get along with aliens.


 
addi Posted: Fri Apr 1 07:00:07 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Sweet P said:

>I think I could even get along with aliens.

It's neat when they let you ride shotgun in their spaceship, but they're a bitch to live with.

When i heard the news about the pope i tried to summon up empathy and concern....but i failed. I can feel some sympathy for him as a man, and for his close friends and relatives, but I can't find any sympathy for the man as the pope. Personally, I find many of his views to be detrimental to society, and i believe passionate roman catholics that literally view him as god's emissary to the rest of us to be dupes. Kinda harsh i know. Exalting a pope, or worshipping Mary, or confessing your sins to a priest is difficult for me to handle.
If I feel like i need to get something off my chest to a higher being i'll go directly to him/her and have a dialogue via prayer.

and i always enjoy reading your thoughts P. Thanks for sharing them.


 
FN Posted: Fri Apr 1 07:06:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I placed bets with some friends about when he'll kick the bucket.

I said he'd die in 2 days from now, and it seems like I'm going to win haha


 
dan632 Posted: Fri Apr 1 09:01:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I placed bets with some friends about when he'll kick the bucket.
>
>I said he'd die in 2 days from now, and it seems like I'm going to win haha

in australia that can get you thrown in jail for 8 years...if it's a legitimate bet, silly country. harsh, but still funny.

i had never really thought about him so much until i saw all this shit on the news and even then i never really cared. down here we only ever saw the pope on TV at easter, christmas and occasionally new years' and it was only like a 20 second clip in the news.

it wasn't until i read this thread that i actually started to think about this stuff...death and it's impression on the world. it's weird you know, everyday, on any given day of the year, 30,000 children die in third world countries and there are never any news stories about that on TV but if one overweight truck driver rolls his truck off the highway in the middle of nowhere affecting nobody but himself you can count on there being a 5 minute news story about how he is survived by his wife and children. but these 30,000 children aren't.

praying, that's a strange one. personally i don't believe in a single deity, i prefer to think that there are multiple gods, like the greeks and ancient egyptians just makes more sense to me. but praying as i see it is just a form of releasing anguish/anxiety and guilt. by praying to god the prayer feels like they are righting their wrongs and to some degree making a justification for what they have done. but if it lets them sleep easier at night after lying about punching their neighbour in the head by all means they should do it. i don't particularly like the idea that people could be thinking they are using prayer as a justification for murder etc though, that's just scary...Charles Manson style.

the part about the floating words got me kinda sad, it got me thinking about how after the accident when i was lying the MRI machine wishing that when i finally came too properly that she would be standing there, waiting. i wanted to be forgiven for what i had done and i hoped that she would be there genuinely WANTING to see that i was alrite but she wasn't.
that one part got me thinking about where thoughts go, where birthday wishes go and what happened to childhood ambitions and if people can actually understand what you are thinking when you are thinking it whether birthday wishes really do come true but we just forget that we wished them and whether we really will reach our true childhood ambitions and we just don't know it.
sometimes i wonder if people think of me the same way i think of them...i wonder is she misses me like miss her. "sometimes when i'm sitting at home thinking of her, i'm wondering is she's sitting at home thinking of me and wondering if i'm sitting at home thinking about her..." Blink 182.

back to the Pope, i find it amazing how one man can be loved by so many people all over the world is dying naturally whilst another one who thinks the world is against him, takes that razor one last time, presses it to his wrist and feels the sting of a cutting a razor as the last thing he will ever feel.


i am daniel's perpetual state of melancholy


 
sweet p Posted: Sat Apr 2 15:16:02 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  He's gone, oh!


 
FN Posted: Sat Apr 2 16:23:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I honnestly, no matter how hard I try, can comprehend what's going through the minds of those people on the square or those who are "actually" touched by this.


 
libra Posted: Sat Apr 2 17:54:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  One thing that I don't get is that why these people would stay up praying and everything. I mean, if a person believes in heaven, and is catholic, wouldn't the one dude that should get into heaven without many problems be the pope?

Another thing I don't understand, is that if he is god's buddy, and everything, why would they have tried to keep him alive with machines and stuff. Doesn't his being sick mean that god wants him to come up and watch the rest of March Madness with him?


 
FN Posted: Sat Apr 2 18:19:31 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I hear they have great porn in heaven for the pope to make up the celebacy thing.


Which makes one wonder, would a pope ever masturbate?

I'm pretty sure most priests do.

Thinking of the children.


 
Aeon Posted: Sun Apr 3 01:36:54 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>I hear they have great porn in heaven for the pope to make up the celebacy thing.
>
>
>Which makes one wonder, would a pope ever masturbate?
>
>I'm pretty sure most priests do.
>
>Thinking of the children.


Please. The pope may have been celibate for as long as he was a priest but he didn't become a priest until he was in his 20s or 30s. I bet masturbated, though. I mean, he's supposedly God's right hand man (pun intended)... he can just be like, "Sorry about that, God." And God has to forgive him.


 
iggy Posted: Sun Apr 3 03:55:46 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  the strange thing is that a good man died (being catholic aside...)

and this is the kind of responses i see.

whereas a singer that has done nothing good for humanity got more symphathy posts when he decided to kill himself than a man who devoted most of his life serving his fellow humans...

i have my thing against catholics and all but that aside, he was a good man.

maybe the prejudices u people have against the church has clouded your brains of better judgement and compassion.





 
FN Posted: Sun Apr 3 06:20:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I won't deny the fact that the man made some contributions to the welfare of the world, like helping the Berlin Wall fall, but calling him a good man is something I don't really agree with.

His policies probably indirectly killed thousands upon thousands of people, putting him up there with the big boys like Bush and Hitler.



Let the shit hit the fan...now.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Apr 3 08:28:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  chan said:
>the strange thing is that a good man died (being catholic aside...)
>
>and this is the kind of responses i see.
>
>whereas a singer that has done nothing good for humanity got more symphathy posts when he decided to kill himself than a man who devoted most of his life serving his fellow humans...
>
>i have my thing against catholics and all but that aside, he was a good man.
>
>maybe the prejudices u people have against the church has clouded your brains of better judgement and compassion.
>
Chanz, old friend, you're absolutely right.
It sickens me to see all these whiny ass kids celebrating with glee the death of a great man.
They all preach tolerance and enlightenment, and then poke fun at things they don't understand.
This pope made an unprecedented apology to the world for the past sins of the Catholic church, he stood with Lech Walesa in the fight for solidarity and the fight against communism. He apoligized to the Jewish community for the church's sins against Jews during ww2. He did more to help feed and house the third world than most countries.
This list goes on and on, and as I said before it sickens me to see the crap on this thread. I see more intolerance here than I ever saw from Jerry fucking Falwell.
No, I'm not Catholic, hell I'm not even Christian, but I recognize and respect what Pope John Paul II meant to the world during his tenure as the spiritual leader of the Catholic church.


 
Aeon Posted: Sun Apr 3 09:27:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>chan said:
>>the strange thing is that a good man died (being catholic aside...)
>>
>>and this is the kind of responses i see.
>>
>>whereas a singer that has done nothing good for humanity got more symphathy posts when he decided to kill himself than a man who devoted most of his life serving his fellow humans...
>>
>>i have my thing against catholics and all but that aside, he was a good man.
>>
>>maybe the prejudices u people have against the church has clouded your brains of better judgement and compassion.
>>
>Chanz, old friend, you're absolutely right.
>It sickens me to see all these whiny ass kids celebrating with glee the death of a great man.
>They all preach tolerance and enlightenment, and then poke fun at things they don't understand.
>This pope made an unprecedented apology to the world for the past sins of the Catholic church, he stood with Lech Walesa in the fight for solidarity and the fight against communism. He apoligized to the Jewish community for the church's sins against Jews during ww2. He did more to help feed and house the third world than most countries.
>This list goes on and on, and as I said before it sickens me to see the crap on this thread. I see more intolerance here than I ever saw from Jerry fucking Falwell.
>No, I'm not Catholic, hell I'm not even Christian, but I recognize and respect what Pope John Paul II meant to the world during his tenure as the spiritual leader of the Catholic church.


Whoa there. There's a difference between joking about the pope and "celebrating with glee the death of a great man". I won't deny the fact that John Paul II did some good things but I won't deny that he sat in the most decadent and (historically) the most corrupt position in world happenings. 263 popes and for every GOOD pope there have been 20 BAD popes. The man was old and it was his time. He did what he came to do. Stop bitching already because a few "whiny ass kids" have morbid senses of humor.


 
FN Posted: Sun Apr 3 09:52:37 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>He apoligized to the Jewish community for the church's sins against Jews during ww2.

Saw a documentary about him yesterday, basicly explaining that he did nothing in any way to try and prevent nazi's from killing jews, even though he was fully aware of everything that was going on. And yeah I know it's easy to point fingers and what not, but the guy did go on to become the pope and preach to others about how they should help one another.

>He did more to help feed and house the third world than most countries.

Yeah, and he did a great deal in not helping to decrease the population in africa or helping to decrease aids numbers.

A thing or 2 can also be said about his position towards women.


 
addi Posted: Sun Apr 3 10:09:43 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I think it's disrespectful to make light of his death. Maybe that's because I'm old school : )

I think this pope did some good things, but also failed to fully use his power and authority to help many in need. So many roman catholic positions are untenible and harmful to their believers, and this pope chose to uphold those beliefs and the status quo.

He was a man, nothing more... with a lifetime made up of good deeds and bad deeds. He is no more special to god than my mother is. If there is a heaven and he meets god now I think he's in for a rude awakening.
I take no glee in his passing, nor do i feel any really sense of loss.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Apr 3 12:13:05 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>I think it's disrespectful to make light of his death. Maybe that's because I'm old school : )
>
>I think this pope did some good things, but also failed to fully use his power and authority to help many in need. So many roman catholic positions are untenible and harmful to their believers, and this pope chose to uphold those beliefs and the status quo.
>
>He was a man, nothing more... with a lifetime made up of good deeds and bad deeds. He is no more special to god than my mother is.
>
And he would probably be the first to tell you that he's no more special to god than the lowest of the low.
Yes he was a man, nothing more, but he was a good man and he used his power to help others, according to his beliefs.
I disagree with some of his beliefs and some of his decisions, but I know that everything he did was done, out of a need to help others.
I don't idolize this man, but I have a great deal of respect for his accomplishments, and I feel the world is a lesser place for his departure.


 
addi Posted: Sun Apr 3 12:31:19 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:

>I don't idolize this man, but I have a great deal of respect for his accomplishments, and I feel the world is a lesser place for his departure.

Good for you, hif. I would never tell you how you should feel about his departing. What you feel is what you feel.
I just think it's out of place for anyone to consciously, or un, make others feel guilt for not weeping over the man's death (making fun of it is a whole nother matter).
I respect the the right for millions to congregate at various sites over the world and mourn his passing.
I also respect those that feel their time is just as well spent watching a futball match on the television.


 
ifihadahif Posted: Sun Apr 3 13:01:04 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  addison said:
>ifihadahif said:
>
>I just think it's out of place for anyone to consciously, or un, make others feel guilt for not weeping over the man's death.
>
I didn't notice anyone doing this.


 
FN Posted: Sun Apr 3 13:37:21 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>I didn't notice anyone doing this.

You sure made me feel guilty :o(

I break so easily *cries*


 
Mouse Posted: Sun Apr 3 14:13:23 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>You sure made me feel guilty :o(
>
>I break so easily *cries*

There there, Chris. *pats*


I don't really know anything about the pope. I am sorry for his death, as I am sorry for many deaths that I hear of but I have little personal connection. It kind of scares me to see so much thought, prayer, and uproar about one person in any situation. *shrug*
He had beliefs that I disagreed with I'm sure, I'm also certain that he had possitive impacts. He lived a long life and for that I am glad for him, nothing saddens me more than one who dies young.

I have shed no tears, I will not shed tears, but I have taken the time to put aside my typical anti-religion mentality to be sorry for the man and those hurt by his loss.


 
kurohyou Posted: Mon Apr 4 01:21:36 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hmmmm...

I know very little of the catholic religion. I know very little of the pope. I remember when he came to Devner in '92 for World Youth Day. I remember wondering what the big deal was. I was younger then.

I've looked at this from a couple views during the last days.

From a historical perspective he is the first pope many of us have ever known of. I feel a certain historical kinship with him because he became pope the same year I was born. A historical figure has passed from our midst. You may not have liked the religion he stood for, you may not have liked his politics, and you may have laughed at him when he drove about in his pope-mobile. But nonetheless, he is a part of our history, the worlds history and some will miss him, and some won't.

From a religious point of view, the cathloic religion has lost their patriarch. Not being affiliated with the catholic church in anyway, I don't grasp the depth of which this affects that church, nor would I expect it to anyone else not affiliated with the church. Like Addison, I don't believe that making light of his death is something that needs to be done, specifically when being used as a tool for speaking out against the church.

You can sit here and you can point to the things that he did wrong, the things he could have done better, and the things he could have prevented, in an effort to counter those who felt he was great. But tell me this--is there a man out there, be they a religious leader, a political leader, or a bus driver, who, when their record is examined, is found to be free of any blemish? When the day comes for our deaths, who amongst us will be able to stand and say that we have done all we could, made no mistakes and made the most of this life that we were given?

Those people who "actually" cared, those who were weeping for him and those who were touched by this, have my respect. Not because we share a common religious doctrine, but because they have something that I don't...a strong faith. They have faith that this man, who was the leader of their church, was truly a man of god, and they have faith in what he said. He brought hope to many during his time on this planet, and there is something to be said for that.

For me, it doesn't really matter if their doctrines are right or wrong. Religious doctrine will be argued for as long as we are divided on this planet. I respect these people because they have one of the things lacking in this world...faith.

For me personally, I'm more spiritual than religious. But I am saddened by the passing of the pope because he was a fellow human being. He was a fellow human being who gave his best, albeit imperfect, attempt at helping people. As Chanz pointed out. He was a good man. He was a good man in a time when there is a shortage of good men, no matter what part of the globe you come from.

May he rest in peace.

For what its worth...


 
FN Posted: Mon Apr 4 07:09:42 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  kurohyou said:
>A historical figure has passed from our midst. You may not have liked the religion he stood for, you may not have liked his politics, and you may have laughed at him when he drove about in his pope-mobile. But nonetheless, he is a part of our history, the worlds history and some will miss him, and some won't.

Will you say the same thing when Kim Jong-Il dies?


>Those people who "actually" cared, those who were weeping for him and those who were touched by this, have my respect.

They don't have mine unless they actually personally knew the guy.


 
misszero Posted: Mon Apr 4 11:23:03 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

i was born a catholic, and went to catholic school for 13 years. I didn't cry. My mother who goes to Mass didn't cry.

The Pope was a human being. All circumstances of his life removed, he's just another person who died. I think everybody should get a little respect when they die, from the pope to charlie manson. i think that's most of why i dislike the death penalty, because of those people you see on tv afterwards cheering and clapping and smiling about it. They gloat, but wait, they'll get theirs.


 
kurohyou Posted: Mon Apr 4 13:38:59 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Christophe said:
>
>Will you say the same thing when Kim Jong-Il dies?
>
>
I don't know enough about the man to know how I would feel when he dies. I'll tell you this though, in the realm of human history, he is still a player. He will have people who support him. He will have an influence on the world, and there will be those who mourn his passing and those who won't. And in the meantime he will be a part of history.

Figures like the Pope, Martin Luther King jr, and Ronald Regan are the types who will receive more mourners because of their actions while they were alive.

Figures like Kim Jong, Hitler, or Saddam, when his time comes won't receive as many because of their actions. But all of them, regardless if they did more good than bad, or more bad than good, are historical figures who have had an impact on us, our ideas, and the face of our world. This we cannot deny. They leave their mark, its not always a good mark but its a mark, and we learn something from them.

For what its worth...


 
Mesh Posted: Tue Apr 5 23:45:53 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Its kinda sad he died....but then again, kind of not. By that I mean, he will be missed by many people, and (in my motherfucking opinion) he was for the most part a goodhearted man. However, he had been in a terrible physical state for the last few years, so maybe its better he passed on now and can finally be at peace, rather than suffer on for a few more years (Schiavo, anybody?) Sad fact of life that everybody, even the pope, has to die. But they do.


Personally, I think the world is a lesser place without him, though there are of course a small handful of issues I did not agree with his stance on. But overall he was a good man so eat my ass with a silver spoon.
I'm not even christian.


 
mat_j Posted: Wed Apr 6 08:19:30 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ifihadahif said:
>chan said:
>>the strange thing is that a good man died (being catholic aside...)
>>
>>and this is the kind of responses i see.
>>
>>whereas a singer that has done nothing good for humanity got more symphathy posts when he decided to kill himself than a man who devoted most of his life serving his fellow humans...
>>
>>i have my thing against catholics and all but that aside, he was a good man.
>>
>>maybe the prejudices u people have against the church has clouded your brains of better judgement and compassion.
>>
>Chanz, old friend, you're absolutely right.
>It sickens me to see all these whiny ass kids celebrating with glee the death of a great man.
>They all preach tolerance and enlightenment, and then poke fun at things they don't understand.
>This pope made an unprecedented apology to the world for the past sins of the Catholic church, he stood with Lech Walesa in the fight for solidarity and the fight against communism. He apoligized to the Jewish community for the church's sins against Jews during ww2. He did more to help feed and house the third world than most countries.
>This list goes on and on, and as I said before it sickens me to see the crap on this thread. I see more intolerance here than I ever saw from Jerry fucking Falwell.
>No, I'm not Catholic, hell I'm not even Christian, but I recognize and respect what Pope John Paul II meant to the world during his tenure as the spiritual leader of the Catholic church.

Here here


 
Silentmind Posted: Sat Apr 9 14:57:11 2005 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm probably a wee bit late with this, but yes he did a lot of good. But he also let many die innocent. Think of his position on AIDS, and the use of contreceptives. His position was a willing position to let people die. Africa is an area with a booming Catholic population, and here he is saying, you have AIDS that can be prevented, but don't prevent it. That is not in the best intrests of humanity. Hitler did many good things for the german people {No, I'm not saying that the Pope was like Hitler, I'm saying that there are good sides and bad sides to everyone} I think that it is doing a disservice to his name for the pilgrims to call him this great man, with no faults.

Also, his position in regards to women in the church was a step backwards. Here he is saying that women do not have the right {or ability} to preach the word of god. And that is a good thing for the catholic church and society?

Again, I'm not disputing the fact that he did good in the world. He did. But he also did massive amounts of damage. And the pomp and ceremony of his death seems...improper. For all these people to claim that he was an accesible pope ect. One of the common men, it strikes me that he would forgo the pomp of a gigantic funeral. Have a common one. There is no disputing the fact that he was not a common man, and once you leave that status, you can never become a common man again.


 



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