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Can I talk to you guys
choke Posted: Tue Mar 7 18:44:20 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  ...About evolution

Hah. You thought you were in trouble didn't you.

Well I'm thinking of getting a tattoo, (I know ew blegh spit spit) of some sort of something to remind me of my year in America, (not actually -of- America, imagine getting the flag and then they go to war against the rest of the world) so I've been thinking about all the things that I have been thinking about while in America.

So I've been thinking about evolution, and how with medicine and stuff we have pretty much rendered our race useless. Which is okay by me, because I mean if there's a huge alien spaceship hurtling toward earth I'd rather not know about/ have to try to do anything about it. Because we can't expect the world to be relying on us in any way. So our race is kindof a huge coincidence which can be wiped out pretty easily and not really affect anything else at all. Which is okay by me. (Who's going to argue that the human race is supposed to last anyway?)

I'm not entirely sure yet how this relates to my tattoo but I'll get there soon I'm sure.

I still am not sure where I am going with this. If anyone has any suggestions they would be appreciated.

So America to me seems to be this new evolution of two 'species' one for material gain, one for connection and open art in order to enhance connection. There doesn't seem to be a lot of actual Work done. I mean work in a survival sense, not 9-5 sense.

I'm seeing a lot of new art forms opening up, a lot of new ideas, and just ways to make life aesthetically pleasing. This could be a result of me growing up, or America. I'm not sure. It just doesn't seem to be like this in my country, except in very small installments. And the connection is key here too. People are 10 times more verbal and seem to feel better for it. Is this going forward or going back?

So I want to bring this new connection/art home with me, where things are simple (and yes, if you want to hear me say it, we are perhaps not as 'evolved' as you) and somehow incorporate it into my life. And into my tattoo. (I knew I'd connect it somewhere)

So.. What I'm asking is, what kindof ideas do you have with this theory (I understand I am young and this could be merely a "what is the meaning of life?" phase that everyone has been through and neglected to warn me about - in which case I would like to be informed, now) and what kindof ideas do you have in relation to somehow SOMEHOW making this into a kindof art form that I can make into a tattoo.

The end.

P.S. I'm sorry if I just wasted your time. All this is very new to me and if it's supposed to be one of those things you think about and talk about with people in your own age group and never mention again when you realise you're being silly (like the whole do you believe in fairies? phase)I'm terribly sorry. I was never told. And I've only met one person who will talk about this with me and she is my age also which makes me very suspicious. Do older people think about evolution and stuff too or is it just a growing thing?

addi Posted: Tue Mar 7 20:06:46 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  choke said:

>Do older people think about evolution and stuff too or is it just a growing thing?

When I get old I'll tell you : )

something tells me you have a slightly different slant on the traditional definition of the Darwinian Scopes trial way that most americans immediately think of. But that's not surprising to have a slightly different slant on a lot of things...which is refreshing : )

Tatoos are so personal that i don't feel real comfortable offering suggestions. Especially when you want it to represent, or remind you, of your stay here. My frame of mind about the current state of our country keeps bringing up all sorts of negative sarcastic images, and i'm sure that's not what you had in mind.

When I think of an image representing something uniquely American I keep going to Native American images...and there are some very cool ones that also have a spiritual meaning behind them...but that may not fit what you're going for since it doesn't have anything to do with evolution.

Posted: Tue Mar 7 22:13:47 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  Baseball! Apple Pie! Nukes!

Hm, seriously, the best I can do is refer you to my favourite artist, who works out of the Detroit/Windsor area (you're in Chicago, right? 4 hours away, roughly):

I'm in there somewhere, under photos -> black & White.

Kira Posted: Tue Mar 7 22:24:25 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  About the idea that Americans are of two types - ambitious and creative - I wouldn't call them seperate breeds at all but two sides of the same coin.

Americans have enormous amounts of leisure time - this is due to abundant wealth. Abundant wealth comes from hard work. "Work" here usually means selling a product. And we must constantly come up with new products. Thus creativity factors in. So the the artist/visionary and the businessman/capitalist depend on each other and are often the same guy. And it is hard to come up with new ideas when you're working yourself into the ground every day - but no easier if you lay around and keep to a routine of laziness and mindless entertainment. So Americans are a very active people, but not laboreous.

As for the rest - I'm still trying to make sense of your vision here, so I'll post back later. Anything I think of right now seems to complex and detailed to be a decent tatoo. Where were you thinking of putting it?

DanSRose Posted: Tue Mar 7 23:44:07 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  That read like Daniel Quinn, who wrote the Ishmael trilogy. That is a high complement.

I also think your assessment is more than correct. I think that the first group makes it incredibly complex and difficult for the first to live happily and be fulfilled. I think that first group often forces the second into its rigidity and breaks them of their unique "survival sense".

beetlebum Posted: Wed Mar 8 03:19:37 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  hi choke.

you have to decide for yourself, you silly girl!

i'd probably get a footprint or something because I like this song.

I will not go down under the ground
"Cause somebody tells me that death's comin' 'round
An' I will not carry myself down to die
When I go to my grave my head will be high,
Let me die in my footsteps
Before I go down under the ground.

There's been rumors of war and wars that have been
The meaning of the life has been lost in the wind
And some people thinkin' that the end is close by
"Stead of learnin' to live they are learning to die.
Let me die in my footsteps
Before I go down under the ground.

I don't know if I'm smart but I think I can see
When someone is pullin' the wool over me
And if this war comes and death's all around
Let me die on this land 'fore I die underground.
Let me die in my footsteps
Before I go down under the ground.

There's always been people that have to cause fear
They've been talking of the war now for many long years
I have read all their statements and I've not said a word
But now Lord God, let my poor voice be heard.
Let me die in my footsteps
Before I go down under the ground.

If I had rubies and riches and crowns
I'd buy the whole world and change things around
I'd throw all the guns and the tanks in the sea
For they are mistakes of a past history.
Let me die in my footsteps
Before I go down under the ground.

Let me drink from the waters where the mountain streams flood
Let me smell of wildflowers flow free through my blood
Let me sleep in your meadows with the green grassy leaves
Let me walk down the highway with my brother in peace.
Let me die in my footsteps
Before I go down under the ground.

Go out in your country where the land meets the sun
See the craters and the canyons where the waterfalls run
Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Idaho
Let every state in this union seep in your souls.
And you'll die in your footsteps
Before you go down under the ground.

i uploaded the song if you want it (or anyone does):

and something a little less depressing:
kite flying society::love and seagulls

this is a pop band from san diego and i really like 'em. i'm not one who's big into pop, but i like it when people produce chirpy, non-"i hate my life" music. sometimes i need a break from the emo. :D

you can find 'em here:

anyway, here's the link: (but if you don't like pop music, don't bother. lol.)

and choke, i'm sorry i derailed this thread.


choke Posted: Wed Mar 8 14:35:10 2006 Post | Quote in Reply  
  I'm at school at the moment and just read over my old post, I feel like there's more to be added but will have to do it when I have time. I've been thinking about similar stuff for a few weeks but it seems like everytime my concentration wavers I forget everything. It's a very fragile thread :P So yes. More to come later.

As for the tattoo... I'm not so much looking for American significance as America, but more the frame of mind I have adopted while in America. I found when I concentrated on the country/experience itself, I reacted a lot like Addi with the sarcasm, but only because it felt better than doing actual work and digging up the good stuff.

But when it comes to mindframe, all the good and bad experiences I've had here seem so inconsequential and make me wince at the idea of putting them into a tattoo. Which is why I'm throwing thoughts of greatness (to my little mind anyway) at the GT wall to see how they bounce back :P


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